Jimbo Paris Show #35- Resilience in the Face of Adversity (Eric Christiansen)

Hi, I'm Jimbo Paris, and you're listening to the Jimbo Paris show. Hello, everyone, this is Jimbo Paris. And today we have Eric. Eric is an acclaimed documentarian, who's had many films made. And these films have motivated so many people and inspire them in amazing ways. How's it going, Eric?

It's going great. Hey, Jimbo, how you doing? Doing well, doing well? Great.

So let's begin by, I'm going to begin by asking you, can you give me sort of a brief summary about yourself who you are, what you're about what your message is?

Oh, well, number one, I'm a husband and a dad of three amazing young adults now. And then I've been a filmmaker since literally, about eight years old, when I made my first film with a script and using regular eight film and, and ever since then, that's the only thing I really wanted to do. And even when I was very young, I knew I had a message. And I just didn't really know what it was. But I knew there was some sort of message deep down inside of me. And about 30 years ago, when the painted K fire disaster came through Santa Barbara, that took my home. And I took that opportunity to kind of it took seven months, but I realized it was opportunity to kind of start all over again with the with the slate clean. And my work completely changed and was very flashy, up until that point, a lot of music, video work. And then I started doing these documentaries. And I did my first film faces in the fire, about the recovery after that disaster. And I won my first Emmy Award. But more importantly, the National Institute of Mental Health picked it up as a training tool for clinicians that help a disaster survivors and three films later, I'm hooked. I'm on my fourth film right now. So

what was it like making your first film kind of run through what was going on through your head? What was it about? And what did that first film show to you about? How filmmaking is in general? And how the industry is?

Oh, my gosh, what a what a great, what a great question. You know, I already knew what the industry was like. And I was doing a lot of commercials, and a lot of other work. But when the fire took my home, and I jumped into this project, it was my first personal project. And I guess I was very naive, of what it would take to do a feature documentary film. And it was, it was an absolutely amazing process. And it was, it was about 30 years ago, and it was before nonlinear editing. So we did dozens of interviews, and they were all on paper, you know, transcribed and it took a lot of work to put it all together. But the culmination of that was the screening of the film A year after the disaster on the anniversary. And to look into the eyes of the people that have actually that were in the film, the participants that had went through the fire, and how it really accelerated their healing by being able to be in the film and talk about it. But then it was twofold. Watching the audience react to it, and connect to it, and say, Oh, me, too. And they might not have necessarily lost their home or anything. But they were connecting on a different level of different losses. They had to see that arc and recovery. And so, I mean, it was absolutely amazing. Then, when the National Institute of Mental Health picked it up, it was, you know, it was it was kind of a done deal. That was my calling, you know, this is the kind of films I make.

So what I could take from everything you said there is that filmmaking brings everyone together. And do you sort of agree with that? Do you? How do you view that?

You know, it does, it has the capability to do that. And then we crossing into the conversation, responsible filmmaking and especially responsible documentary filmmaking, and that's personally my personal opinion. But, you know, portraying not just the problem, not just the, the sensationalism of the fire of the trauma, and going beyond that, and trying to delve into the hope and the healing on the other side, and what the modalities of that are and how, you know, So how can we portray it in a way that people can watch it, and see the film and then aspire to, to be like the people in the film? And so that's, that's, that's my take on that.

And as a filmmaker, what are your unique core values?

You know, that's another great question. You know, one of my core values is always look for the hope. You know, no matter no matter how far down the scale, because people want that there is always hope. And that's one of the experts in my film, Dr. Arya Shalev, he's also out, and he's actually at the University of Jerusalem now. And he's a researcher into trauma and trauma recovery. And one of his main tenets is that no matter what you've lost, no matter how low you went, there's still a spark left, and there's still hope, and there's still something to build on it. And sometimes the trauma just clears away a lot of the wreckage and the other things to be able to get to that spark and grow from there. And that's, that's one of my main, that is one of my main pillars, I guess, you would say, is to portray hope.

Now speaking of hope,what were one of the situations in your life as a filmmaker that entails you to use hope the most?

Well, I go back to losing my home in the panic, a fire disaster, you know, in 1990. And, you know, the, the day after, did not look too hopeful, you know, and the months after, were not hopeful. And I drove myself into even further, I traumatized myself, by my drinking and drug use, I had already not, I wasn't really a, what you would call a social drinker before the fire, and it just accelerated that whole cycle for me. And so, you know, it drove me very, very low. But finally, about seven months later, you know, I was able to grasp onto something, and have a spiritual nature, and it gave me a gave me hope, you know, and then now I look back on that I have that painting, I have a photograph, that that fire in my office now, to remind me every time I go into my office, no matter how terrible, it looks, how dire the situation looks, that, you know, God can bring us through this thing. And he has a silver lining if we if we keep pushing through it. So that's how that's how I really was, I guess, got connected with him. And it just reminds me every time that there's always hope on the other side of our circumstances.

And you said spiritual, right, was that spiritual side sort of the? Well, this falls into a different question, what was sort of the the driving force, like what was what were one of the key goals you had? As a filmmaker? What were some of the biggest films that you've hit? And the ones that you had to use the most strive for?

Oh, my gosh, each. Each one ends up being a big challenge, you know, I just kind of facing some fire my first film, it just, you just you just something inside of you, just keeps you driving. And I look back on that. And that was a joy, because because I was so naive, I did not know what was in front of me. And I just kept pushing through and winning the Emmy Award before I turned 30 was, was a really neat thing. But then my second film, homecoming of Vietnam vets journey, which came a full 10 years later, and in the meantime, I had worked on dozens and dozens of other films and IMAX movies and discovery and the Navy SEALs, all sorts of other stuff. But my next personal film was homecoming of Vietnam vets journey. And the challenges came with that were soon I was faced with funding challenges, I was faced with just logistical challenges, you know, of shooting the film. And then, you know, some of the bigger challenges at the end was distribution, getting the film out there so people can see it. And you know, but again, it's having that faith in that hope continuously, that it will end up in the right place. And I was super blessed with that film. You know, that we ended up on public television and it did so well. And it was a similar situation with searching from coming back from war, but, man, that was it. It was a way bigger film. And it took eight years to make it hanging into something and a project. And keeping the energy and artistic vision for eight years is a big, big challenge. And, you know, I my current film, now unmasking hope we're running into the third year. And it has all the same challenges. It's the same challenges the funding the distribution, the, you know, the time keeping your energy. And also now with me with this film is doing something different, you know, trying to communicate in a different way that perhaps we'll even go a little bit closer to the people's souls that are viewing the film.

And I want to hit each film one at a time. And so for your first film, faces of fire, what are some key lessons you could give to people on how to make a documentary, or a film on trauma itself, and hit a broad range of people, because that's a very specific situation. And you actually went through two. So I think you could give some very valuable lessons on filmmaking for that specific area,

you know, and you hit right on it, I think having personal experience, somewhere that you can draw from, that you can connect with not only the material in the film, but you can connect with the people that are involved in the film and the participants. And having went through that fire. That was obviously a key part of it. I couldn't imagine doing a film about trauma, and not having went through recovery myself. So being being you know, involved, and having the experience. So you can tell that story is very, very important, because, you know, this, but you know, I was so blessed. And I don't want to jump ahead, but I was so blessed on the homecoming of Vietnam vets journey. That my recovery somehow in my the chroma I went through, somehow I related to the, to the veterans. And I was, I don't know how that ever happened. It was, again, it's a spiritual thing that got set up, that I was able to connect in a very personal way with the veterans, and they knew I was genuine. They didn't, that I wasn't there just to get a sensationalized story, or to try to just tell a dramatic story. I was there for them. I was there to connect. So I think going back to your original question, having some core experience in the material, really, really is a huge advantage when you're making a film like that.

Why do you think that connection is so important, but in a more specific way? For example, when you have that connection, how is it picking actors specifically, writing out the story, specifically picking out the scene specifically to sort of play these events out in your head as you're writing the film? Because I find that very interesting, because you sort of elaborate more on a deeper sense to filmmaking, it's also about the passion as well, it's not just you play it out in a factory made way and looking at other films.

Well, in the documentary world, you know, when, when I'm going into it, I have no script. You know, and and the people that we choose, and the participants that come into the film are really guided to the film, I really believe that. And the right people find the film for the right people end up in the film. And so you know, one of the things is with documentary filmmaking, for me, as a filmmaker is letting go of expectations. And not expecting or not trying to force a certain outcome out of my subject, and let the subject dictate what the next step snip is, whether it's a person or it's a situation or whatever I'm trying to cover in the documentary style. I try not to impose my personal ideas on it. I have to have the basic structure that I'm going after, but within that structure, I have to let the people be who they are, and the situation be what it is. I mean, and I gotta admit, there's a lot of times I hear about a subject or a participant I'm very excited to interview him, I think I have a certain angle and I start to talk to him. And it's not at all what I think. And it goes in a different way. And I have to. And I've learned to let it go that way. Because somewhere later, when I put the whole film together, it went that way for a reason. And my ideas are just ideas, I have to let go of my expectations and let things play out in front of me. And then when I get to the sweet, I usually find out why it went that way. And to me, it's kind of very metaphysical way of working. But God kind of is my producer. And it's worked extremely well in the last three films. And I believe it's working out extremely well, on my fourth film, I'm asking Nope.

And how is the business side of this? Because, you know, you're a filmmaker. Yes. But there's other factors as well, their finances at play, there's all these other things to play? How did you sort of counterbalance this passion with the more technical business side of things?

You know, that's a great question. And, you know, early on, I had a lot of other projects going in and faces in the fire really got my foot in the door of a certain kind of filmmaking, and then people would see my films and go, Oh, we went something kind of like that. We'd like the warm fuzzy, because what would come up, and, you know, I was gun for hire, on a lot of different projects, you know, I've done a PBS work, you know, for staples, and for at&t, all these big films that were similar to not mine, but I didn't really have the sole connection with them. And that that, that was, you know, a source of income and a source of economic mechanism was what I say. And then it allowed me to then go off, and do like films like homecoming, and just, you know, I ended up with a basic amount of funding for my films, and it's not what I would call an economic mechanism. You know, and with my last film, searching chrome coming back for more, you know, we had a theatrical release, and we had a public TV release, and we show it so 2300 times on public television, but I gotta say, there's not a huge financial economic mechanism in that. But God always takes care of me on the other side. And, you know, I'm kind of like that musician that has a day job in a way. And then I have my calling. And I would love for that crossover to happen someplace, you know, and sometimes that my calling becomes my commerce. But right now, you know, I'm more than taking care of, you know, my kids are able to go to school, and go to 10 great colleges. And my wife, and I have a nice life. And, you know, I do have my day job, you know, when I call my day job, but But when I'm in the middle of film, it's still all enveloping with unmasking hope. So the answer to that is, you know, the crossover hasn't really happened to me where my films have become a major economic mechanism. And I don't know too many documentary filmmakers that can say that, but you see, like the Michael Moore's, and you see the Ken Burns, and they obviously have breaking broken through, you know, but I'm 58 years old, and I'm doing my fourth film. And, you know, and some people keep saying, you know, this could be your breakthrough again, that's fine. You know, I have two New York Times reviews, I have, you know, seven Emmys, and I have all this stuff. It's nice. And but mainly, I have a lot of letters and, and hundreds, if not 1000s of people that have been touched by my films that have healed, and that's, that's my soul. It's a whole different kind of economic measurement. It's God's God's economy. And I take great pride in that my last film 12 million people saw it so pretty amazing.

And what do you believe, makes you different from other filmmakers? Because I know there is a difference, but I want to know specifically, what do you think makes you stand out from other people that make documentaries What do you put into your documentaries that the average Joe filmmaker probably wouldn't do?

You know, it's I think we've kind of covered some of that, but I gotta tell you, the main thing is and I don't like being called a filmmaker, actually, you know, it works. It is what I am. I guess it's kind of like Popeye but it is what I am but it's, what I do is my calling and people that I work with know that that I've been put here to be a messenger I've been put here to be somewhat of a healer And I help people heal through my films. And my you know, my spiritual gift is I've empathy so I can get inside and be with people and their emotions. And then I try to portray those in my film, you know, with with the end result, hopefully being that people aspire to follow in the footsteps, the portrayals and I show that it touches their heart, so they know that there is hope. And then they can they can instigate some healing and healing path in their life. So I think that's really what makes a difference in the people that I work with. They're always, you know, especially the veterans, there was like, Well, I'm not too sure, you know, a lot of filmmakers have approached me, etc, etc. And then once we sit down in the room, and we really start working together, they understand that it's way more than doing the film's for me, it's connecting with individuals, it's being able to go to all these memorials, I've been able to get to, you know, I've taken Vietnam that's to the, to the wall in Washington, DC to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, I've been able to cut me 911 survivors on a healing mission to the 911. Memorial. Then recently, one of the most powerful trips is I took two mass shooting survivors from the route 91 incident, up to the memorial in Vegas, you know, and we did, we did film. And one of my biggest my biggest I think, pat on the back. So I got after that was one of the survivors came up to me and said, I didn't even notice the cameras there. And thank you, you know, I never thought I would go to Vegas again. So that's, that's what makes it different for me. I put the healing first, then, oh, by the way, we got to film.

Why do you always put the healing first?

Well, my greatest teacher, I mean, the truth is my greatest teachers, I'm a follower of Christ. And my biggest teacher always put people first. And they always put no matter what. But put people first. And it says in my in the big book that I go for him. It says, you know, love others, as you love yourself. And so that's what I try to do in my work. I try to I try to put love first no matter what, it doesn't matter if you're a believer, if you believe the same thing, I believe or whatever. That that's not, there's no boundaries there. I tried to just love first. And that's why healing is so important to me. Because I've been given the gift of healing. You know, I've been clean and sober now for over 30 years after that fire. And it's definitely, you know, there's a certain program I belong in, and then there's God. And so we've really dived in spiritually here. But that's, that's a great question. And that's why I put healing first. Because I've been given the gift. And now I tried to give the gift and I try to follow it. What my greatest teacher did

Now, how each of your films are different nature. Because I think a lot of times, you know, you were talking a lot about how each film was similar. How was each film now different? Because I want to kind of get a gist of now the sort of evolution of you as a filmmaker, what were the different lessons that you learned with each I think we elaborated on the first one quite a bit. So if you get into the second film, so besides the faces of fire, if we could go up from that, because we talked a lot about mental trauma and how you use that.

That's, that's just such a great question. I'll try to make it as short as possible. And leaving faces in the fire out is a good idea. Facing the fire was a naive, naive, like, Okay, I'm gonna do this movie. But then then came home coming of Vietnam as attorney and you know, it had a truncated shooting schedule was very different than other things, but the biggest challenge was being able to come alongside of a very tight group of individuals, which were the Vietnam vets and to prove that to them where my heart was. And, you know, going across the country, you know, we had three weeks, I think about two weeks just going across the country and and the filming was truncated and as I said, But the biggest challenge here was earning their trust, which we did, you know. And so that was that was what made that film. It was, it was a very linear storyline going across the United States, but the healing and the healing story was built upon that. And so it was a very simple structure. And then came back from where, where I think I, I threw everything into the pot, it's insane. You know, and, and when I discovered in my first few films was storytelling through an aggregate of different people. And that healing, everybody has basically the same art in healing much like, you get as you get, you get a scratch, it's going to scab over, it's going to heal, there's a certain way that we heal from, from trauma. And so I was going off of that kind of theory. And I, then I added a lot of other a lot of other, I wanted to expand that idea that we all kind of feel the same. So I ended up with World War Two veterans, veterans that are coming home now a female veteran that had military sexual trauma in Iraq, you know, and then on the upside, is so diverse is, you know, this, this gentleman from Kansas that was a Korean War veteran, marine, Purple Heart, and what did they really have in common? You know, and I remember when I was editing that film, and I saw the first cut that was over three hours long. And they all flowed together, and they all kind of told the same story. That was that blew me away, and I'm like, wow, I'm really on to something here. This is just kind of my style. And that was this book was really a big deal about, about searching for him coming back from war. But now I'm asking hope, I said, I'm gonna take a little bit further, I'm going to vary the traumas, there's going to be 911 survivors is going to be mass shooting survivors, there's going to be rape survivors, there's going to be a male, a male, a man that were sexually assaulted when he was super young, you know, and, and then, along with, of course, our veteran, and, and I'm starting to put that together now. And they're all telling the same story again. And that's what's so different. This one is a very diverse aggregate of individuals unmasking hope. And it is a logical extension of what I started exploring with the veterans of different ages and different genders, and different wars in searching for home. So I'm going a little bit further with it with unmasking.

Searching, for whom would you consider that your most logical film because it was sort of based in a more military base environment?

Cast but great questions, you know, you have a great connection with us. Thank you. And yes, I do consider that a very logical film and, and I'm gonna give a shout out to one of my teachers that was at CalArts over like, I don't know how many years ago I was there in the 80s. Johanna demonstra raucous was my editing teacher. She was one of the original editor editors on the film, Woodstock. And she drove me crazy, it was my least favorite class. But guess he was in my head all the time. That is Japan as saying. And so going back to searching for him coming back from war, it is a very logical film. And it is what Johanna would say Chicky ducky horse, which means you talk about a chicken and you should watch chicken. And he's talking about, of course, seeing you tomorrow. And it's a very logical film with a logical progression on the healing. And you know, this is what happened. This is like, you know, them coming home and this is what they went through. And this is how they found healing. And this is where they are now. And that's, you know, the structure of the film. And it is, I would say ticky tacky horsey. Now with unmasking hope. I want to deconstruct the ticky tacky horsey. I want to go more into John Cage. Random. I don't mean random but nonlinear fashion with this film. I don't want it to be obvious. I want it to be more impressionable. I want it to be little slices of everybody's healing. And then it I think, in doing so, it's going to be more impactful to the soul, because life doesn't go into perfect nonlinear finishing. So

So you mentioned John Rambo, yes.

No John Cage, Johnny Cage Oh, John Cage. He was a, he was a he was a great artists, American artists and you can look them up on Google. He did the, his most famous work was called minutes of silence, he wrote a symphony that was told minute's silence. And it sounds crazy, but he was conceptually quite brilliant. And he was in residence or residency at CalArts, my last year there and I was able to meet him. And he would write poetry by typing words on a piece of paper, then cutting them all up and then throwing them up. And then they would land then he would write the poetry. And he was, his whole theory was this kind of chaos, random work that he would do. And it sounds crazy to the outsider. But it was actually quite brilliant. And he was most one of the most lightest beings I've ever been around. What a great man. So But anyways, I was very influenced by that. And I don't know if it's going to, I don't mean, my film is going to be random. But I am influenced by that idea. Because life is not linear. And

that's super fascinating. Because having that is quite crazy, in my opinion, because you're a filmmaker, they've got influence from a poet that writes his poetry by writing a bunch of random rooms, tearing them up, and then throwing it in the air. And then, you know, that's not the first thing that comes to mind. When I think of what a filmmaker gets influenced from, you know, you pick a filmmaker would look at other films. But this, this kind of goes into a different question that I have what actually, where do you actually get influenced from your films from? Besides your experiences? You mentioned a poet. Is there anything else?

Could you? What a great question, I glad we went there, because I'm very proud of one having went to California Institute of the Arts, it's California Institute of the Arts, in Valencia, and in the 80s. And I was able to meet a lot of amazing people, performance artists, the answers, I went to school with. Pete doctor, that is now one of the main people up at Pixar films. And so it was very, it was a very amazing environment, when I learned how to incorporate different disciplines, into my work, and I've never forgotten that I dream about it. And I go back that time there. And that exchange of ideas all the time with my work. And so that's how John Cage comes up are going towards what influences me now. I'm actually more influenced by structure of music, by by amazing lyricist. There's a there's a gentleman called father, John Misty, that is an amazing lyricist. And I listened to his own structure. I listened to his story structure. And then of course, Neil Young is his storytelling and a songwriting really influences me. And then a classic is Elton John, and Bernie topping. And, you know, Bernie Thompson's lyrics, when you just listen to the lyrics, if someone saved my life tonight, you're like, What is this really about? It's very jumbled, it's very, but it leaves you with an overall emotional effect. That's so powerful. And so very important. Music and lyrics and good writing. You know, so that's, that's a big influence. Not only that way, I'm in I'm starting to cut the film right now. And I'm in the first, you know, the first 715 minutes of the film as the most important part, because you're setting up everything, you're setting up your pacing, you're setting up your style. And it's like writing, it's like, to me, it's more akin to writing music than it is to making a film, in a way. Because I'm writing, I'm writing a song. I'm trying to move somebody's heart. And so that I'm dabbling in now and I'm moving things around and getting pacing and it's starting to work. And again, I go back to listening to this music and it inspires me and great songwriting inspires me. So that's where I come from. I mean, if I just watched other documentaries, I think I don't know what I think I don't like watching other documentaries, other than than surfing films and things like that because If I get into a quandary, well, they're doing this, maybe I should do that. And again, this whole other thing, I've been doing this long enough, I don't need to watch other documentaries right now to like, get inspired, I need to try to do my own work.

That's quite interesting, because you mentioned a lot about lyrics, a lot of verbal things, a lot of poetry. You know, are you more of an auditory learner? Because I noticed you never really talk too much about using visual cues as much.

Oh, man, I'm super visual. But that's interesting. I don't know, I'm open to the fact that naming I am. But I am super visual. And that's why, you know, I shoot all my own films. And, you know, the New York Times give me what I can't remember what they said about my cinematography, but I want to Emmy Award and cinematography, so visually, I'm, and then again, we're talking about my career. I did six years as the toothpaste guy, and I just had an eye for four teeth and photographing teeth. So I am very visual, but I love words, I love words. And I get frustrated, because sometimes words don't convey enough. And I'll get into a place where I know there must be a perfect word for this thing, you know, and, and but I do love words, and I love the sources. And I love that. So maybe I am very learning learner, so.

And when we look at all of your films, right, we really looked at all of your films a lot during this interview. Specifically, what film are you most proud of? And what film? Are the people of your audience most problems?

Well, that's a good question. You know, I'm, I'm most proud of kinda, I think I'm most proud of unmasking help right now. And it's not even done. Because it's a culmination of so much my work. And, you know, I get the transcripts back from the interviews that I've done. And I mark them up, you know, here's a good take. And I put these little stickies all over it. And I look at my searching for home interviews. And there's a sticky every couple pages. But I look at the stickies for unmasking hope. And there's like, there's four or five of them on each page. My, my, my, my soul, and my heart has very, has really matured as far as being in the interview process. And like, my gift of empathy, I'm able to open up and connect in a way that people really feel safe about talking about pretty intense things. And so I am proud about that. I'm proud about a film. That's not done, I guess. But going back to the audience question. I mean, searching for home coming back from war, hands down, we had 2300 earrings. So my son, my son did the math, I think he had to sit in the room for over six months with the constantly, constantly showing to get to get to, you know, get to 2300 times. But it blanketed the United States on public television, and it just took off. And I'm very proud of that. Because that means people are watching it means people are learning about the veterans plight, that means people are like, hopefully being aspired to heal themselves. And that means that a lot of veterans have seen it. And it's still it's being used in veteran centers across the United States to help people work with things to connect, and that's one of the most important things for for trauma survivors is to connect and mental health and people that are going through mental health situations, to connect with others and know that they're not alone. And that's what hopefully what my films do. And that's what I'm asking you hope will do. Hopefully, even more powerfully, and we'll see if it's an audience favorite. You know,

using searching for home was the most well marketed and believable one.

Yeah, definitely. There's, there's no doubt that, that that that searching for home, I mean, I remember we're like, oh, we're going to be so stoked if we get like 200 You know, We get like 100 stations picking it up, we ended up with I don't know how many hundreds of stations because all the public television stations are independence. And I don't know how many stations picked it up well over 300 showing it every year for over three years, we went into our we went past our three year initial window into another five year extension, and it's still on public television. So it's, it's definitely, you know, these films different, we'll see what unmasking because we had the same distributor and they're very excited about it. So we'll see where that goes. Because I think it's a more accessible film in a certain way. Because everybody has trauma. It's about trauma. It's not just about military trauma.

Do you think, through your journey as a filmmaker, you've inspired other people? Have you gotten any apprentices? Are the people that would want to come under your wing, and potentially become filmmakers as well? Have you inspired some people to do that, or just inspired people in general?

You know, I know I've inspired a lot of people in general, you know, and especially a lot of the people that are participants in the film, you know, and there and I just got a wonderful message on Facebook from one of the mass shooting survivors mom's thanking me for what we've done for her so far. And we have the film's not even out. But you know, I would love to have somebody under my wing. It's funny, you mentioned that today, because we're just I was just talking with one of my producers that, you know, I would like an intern for finishing this film. And, and I've done that before, and but you know, it's interesting, because I do such a strange little niche, you know, it's, there must be somebody out there that would love to absorb it. And you know, and if it's meant to be, then maybe I'll find that person. But up to this point, you know, I've inspired a lot of people around me that work with me, and, and they see what I do, but I don't know, directly saying, you know, as an apprentice or something I don't have somebody I directly point to

when we talk more about this. What is the future?

Well, we were just talking about that is I don't know, it's getting it's getting more masking. And then it's gonna see, does that set off something else in my career or not? You know, am I just going to? I'm not sure. You know, I have written a screenplay and narrative film, which is very different than documentary. But based on one of the characters in my film, Homecoming, a Vietnam vets journey. Now, do I want to spend a lot of time fending that and trying to get it off the ground and doing go, I want to really put that in? Or do I want to enjoy watching my you know, my son looks like he's gonna get married. My other son is playing football back East? And do I want to watch them grow up and spend time with him and paddleboard and surf? I don't know. But I've done this my whole life. And when I seen that to my friends, they just laughed at me. They think I'm gonna have something cooking pretty soon. But no, I don't have anything on the other side of unmasking hope right now, film wise, other than that script. And I really question if I want to drag myself through the glass, the broken glass that literally, and just everything I need to do to get it funded to get that film. I don't know if I have the passion for that right now. But you know what, God has a way of hooking me up with things. And I have this feeling that's something you know, I was just talking to, again, talking to a friend about this just a few days ago that at the end of unmasking hope there's there's something else waiting, but I just don't know, my main goal is just to finish this, you know, with I'm not sure if we've changed the website or not, but we have moved to the June 2023 release on the film.

Why do you question your passion per se, in that specific area?

Well, it's, you know, it's exactly what we're talking about, you know, we're talking about that eight year thing, you know, and as I get a little bit older, you know, I really have to look at what I know and pour myself into and does is that screenplay something that is I'm passionate about to do? You know, to do that with to spend another three years just trying to get it funded, not much less. And then the heartbreaking making it because you know It's funny, I think Ron Howard said this, that at some point, every movie breaks your heart. You know? And that happens. It's a struggle. You know? And, and do I want to go through that? You know, cuz I'm not sure. You know, I feel fortunate to made these three films and be able to make this fourth. And it's definitely, I'm super grateful. But I question, no question having a amount of passion that will take me over the top to be able to finish it the way I need to finish things. And I got the passion now, and I constantly work on it. Now for unmasking go. I'm excited. Like I said, it's my favorite film already. I hope it I hope it is, you know, it's like, Michelangelo used to say, you know, with his sculptures, you know, the film already exists, and the sculpture already exists, I just have to kind of weigh what's not what's not part of the film, you know, and the same with the sculpture, right? He's just have to cut away the stone that's not murder, the sculpture, and that's what I'm doing. And it already exists. So

what is one key piece of advice you would give to your younger self, before you even got into filmmaking?

Well, you know, that's, that's promote yourself, maybe more. Don't be, don't be shy. You know, when the when the, when the advertising agencies see your work, and then people are like, follow up on everything. And don't be shy about touting yourself. I still am. I'm still shy about that. You know, it's, it's funny, and I work in a world where, you know, I, I work in real estate, and I run a big real estate team, with my wife, and in real estate agents have a way of being talking a lot and touting themselves. And it drives me crazy. You know, because I have a lot under my belt in film world, and I've never done that. So going back, I would say, Eric, learn how to talk about yourself a little bit more. And, and not be fearful, you know, to just put yourself in a lot of situations in front of the right people. You know, and that sounds like a regret, but it's not really it's, it is. It's just what's happened to

me. Was there a specific individual that you looked at that inspired you to get into filmmaking? Because I understand that, you know, you have this passion, but filmmaking as a specific way to get that passion out, you must have looked at somebody and be like, Okay, this guy is using his passion, the way I want to use my passion to to express my experiences.

Well, again, it goes back to kind of more singer songwriters for that, but when I go back to like filmmaking, yeah, I've had people that really inspired me. You know, and that took me under their wing. You know, early on in my career, there is a gentleman named mal Wolf, that really took me under his wing and influenced me he was an IMAX filmmaker. When IMAX films were like more destination, he did, he did, like the beaver film and a lot of IMAX films like that. And I worked on seven greatest places with him and seven greatest places on earth based on geographical diversity as a post production supervisor on that, and editor, he really inspired me and then there was a new one, I'll have to get this to. There's Bob's, Leisha and Bob taught me so much, just about being on a set inspired me as far as content. You know, he just he really just inspired me just to be a filmmaker, he inspired me how to hold my he taught me how to hold myself. You know, and, and when I would do big commercials, he told me, never hesitate. Just say yes or no and move ahead. Because if you hesitate, it's showing a weakness and I just would make decisions. When you're doing a huge commercial and you have 50 people on the group. You got to just say yes, no move ahead. You know, and you can always fix. He taught me all about it. And he taught me also and this last thing I'll tell you about him, but he told me this great thing was, you know, ask for every, you know, on a shoot, I need all these lights, I need this, I need that and I need the biggest crew. And then if you end up you know, with with nothing be prepared to shoot it with the headlights of your car and say you did it on purpose. So he also told me, anybody can be a hack, you know, anybody can be a hack. And that's why I always go the extra distance. When it's when it's not right. It's just not right. extra distance to make. Make It Right, because anybody can be a hack. So those are the guys that influenced me.

When you're influenced by all these different people, what specific skill was the hardest to get? Was it the shyness? What was it specifically?

Now, do you mean like what skill craft wise? Yeah, well, it's interesting because I went to California Institute of the Arts. And my mentor was Chris Malkovich. And he came from Poland. And he worked with some of the greatest Polish filmmakers at the time. And he was very renowned, he wrote a great, amazing textbooks about cinematography. And I learned underneath him how to shoot. And the funny thing is, I never felt 100% comfortable with my cinematography. And so I picked up editing while I was at CalArts. And then I went on to be an editor, you know, and I did a lot of editing, you know, lots of music videos, lots of stuff, lots of commercials. And I never really, it was later I returned to cinematography. And, and so I just didn't feel I didn't feel accomplished there. And the, but I remember some time during the, when I was cutting the IMAX movie, you know, when you're a virtual So, like for the violin, say, the mechanics become secondary to like delivering the emotion. And once you get over a certain place of the mechanics of the violin, finger placement, all that you can connect with instrument and deliver emotion. And I feel sometime during the IMAX movie, I got through the mechanics of editing. And I became the editor then. And, and it wasn't till much later, because I didn't have I didn't have that confidence with cinematography. But you know, Intel, I think it was just, I can't remember the quote from New York Times, tell the New York Times called out my cinematography and searching for home coming back from war, I felt that I was semi accomplished with that, you know, with shooting. And so finally, I feel very confident, confident now. And I feel, I don't know, if I'm quite the virtuoso on my own, I still get stuck in a lot of the mechanics of shooting. But shooting unmasking has been a real joy. So I hope that kind of answers that question. Because it's just, you're always learning, you know, and it's getting the confidence, you know. So,

you know, it seems like confidence really is the key here. And how does one build that confidence? Is it just through sheer experience? What is it specifically?

You know, I heard a great quote is, you know, the, the imitator brags, and he boasts, and he talks about his work all the time, you know, whereas the true artist is constantly scared. I guess I can't really say that word. He's scared shitless all the time. And so, I think if you get that confidence, and maybe it might not be good. I think as an artist, a certain amount of healthy fear, I hate the word fear but a certain amount of healthy fear and a certain amount of can I really do this is is a brutal motivator to go to the next level. It's a real it's, it's exciting. You know, and I gotta tell you what the edit on unmasking hope I'm looking at all this footage, and I'm like, how the heck is it all going to come together? You know? And on the other side of that is exhilaration. So if I was confident Right now I'd be a little bit scared.

Let's sort of just talk more about the filmmaking industry as a whole. Where do you think the industry is going? What do you think the climate of the industry was when you first got into it? Versus how it is now? Do you like where it's going? Do you notice any changes,

you know, perhaps that's one of the reasons that I don't want to, like make another film or anything right now, because there's so many film schools, there's so many people that have learned how to shoot a movie on their phone, and I'm an old dinosaur, and people listening to this, that our young are going to just think he's an old fart. But I learned how to shoot on film, I learned how to edit on film. And if you made a mistake editing, you know, you had to go back and it was it was painstaking things. And it took a lot of it took a lot of uh it just took a lot of time, and everything took a lot of time, and it was difficult it new paint your price, if you had an idea, you had to go get the camera, shoot the film, get the film developed, and it was expensive, and you had to like do favors, and you had to cut the film. And then you had to like, get it, it was a whole different process. Now everybody has a voice, there's no water, there's no water marking, or like that you have to try to what I'm saying it was difficult to like, get something out there back in the day. So what the people that had a voice really had a passion for getting it done. Because it took so much to do. Now everybody has a voice. Everybody is a content creator, whatever the hell that is. And they it just content to me is like, kind of like kibble dog food. It's just like a bunch of stuff. And everybody has a voice. So everybody's getting lost. There's no, there's no there's no bar that you have to get over to be able to have a voice anymore. And so, yeah, I'm not crazy about the way the industry is now. You know, it's like my, my kids. Thank God, they didn't go to film school. You know, I would not I would tell him not to go to film school. You know, it's like, what are you really content creation, I don't know what the hell that really is. It's just, it's a lot better to learn how to like, cut a two by four and be able to nail it and be able to do something physical than it is just to create content. I don't know, you got me on a roll there. But that's how I feel about that. Because you got to pay your dues to be able to get the right to like have a voice. But that doesn't happen anymore. So the market is flooded with content creators, whatever that is, as I say, and it's just like, I'm old school. I'm all. I guess that's just where it is. Sorry.

What positive impact do you think you've made in the filmmaking industry over your years? Because you've been doing this for a while. There must have been some Shane, some new insight that happened to the industry and you made a small dent in that specific area. What was that dent?

I don't know if it's an industry itself. But I know it's with my audience. I mean, Ralph Waldo Emerson said, you know, to change a social condition to know one life has breathed easier because you existed. I know that and that's his definition of success. I know I've done that a couple times over. And that's good enough for me. I don't know if I've changed anything in the industry or anything like that. I'm a I'm a tiny little blip on the big corporate scene, and, and that whole race, you know, with the studios and stuff, and I've been involved in that. And I've been involved with agencies and commercials and things like that. But I don't know if I really made much of a mark there. But I've made much. I know I've made several big marks on a human level. I'm a life changed level. And that's what really counts for me. So I can point to so many instances, as I said, just being able to be with those people going into the the memorials, much less getting emails of people that life has changed. And they and they they've been able to grasp on the healing because of what they saw on one of my films, or the people in the films themselves. I still get thank yous, Jr, Jr, Franklin, a Vietnam vet, living out now and Missoura. I mean, he still thinks me all the time for the participation, being in my films because it changed his life. It validated his life and when he did in Vietnam by being able to tell his story, and that's just one person. So, that's what matters to me.

Again, that's the most important thing you've accomplished, you know, you've won the people. And, you know, that's, that's a, that's a big thing. And, you know, this is coming to a close, though, about what are some final things you would like the audience to know?

You know, I always go back to this, and I was just in another interview I was just talking about this is, you know, we're in a, we're in a time that there's a crisis in empathy. And true empathy, not sympathy, not feeling sorry for somebody. But true empathy, it's so much easier to make a quick decision and throw out a sound bite, you know, of, of how you feel about a situation, the homeless person, just get a job. That that's the simplest, you know, situation, but the thing that I'm called to do, and what I'd like to try to do with my films is called people through empathy. You know, when you see the homeless person on the, on the street, understand that he is somebody's son, at one time, you know, his mom changed his diapers. And he had a birthday party with a cake and candles. You know, and so then you start to, like, make human. And it takes, I'm getting emotional thinking about it, because it makes you vulnerable, to truly empathize and put yourself in, and then you look at where he is now. He, he's, you know, it's, and tried to imagine that and so I asked people to empathize, on so many different levels, with what's going on in the world. And, you know, it will ease the tension between this divisive mess that is like so ramp rampid, because everybody knows their way is the right way to get vaccinated not get vaccinated. Other than that, you know, it's like, all that craziness. But you know, take a second to try to figure out what the other side is thinking and put yourself and truly in their shoes. You know, and realize that life is made out of shades of grey, and not black and white. So that's, that's my little soapbox, I guess you would say. And empathy is something that you need to practice and learn how to do. And then also, as I say, why most people don't the prize, because it's a big risk, it makes you vulnerable. And so we just just put a plea out there to empathize, to understand you know, even though they don't look like you or they don't talk like you that, you know, they had a mom and dad they had this and that and then you start to look and build from there and connect with their situation now and it's it's a skill that you learn and if more people could learn that skill, it'd be awesome.

Excellently and this off, right. I am Jimbo Paris, and this is the Jimbo Paris show. Thank you again, Eric. This was a real privilege.

Thank you, Jimbo. It's been awesome. Great questions. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to the Jimbo Paris show.